To the commenter about the "junk" shops. They are thrift businesses and at least they encourage re-use instead of buying new all the time. As for this thread getting 89 Votes. I am ASHAMED to call myself a Londoner, if this is the kind of attitude people have about people who are trying to survive in this Economic climate.

The welfare office has to stay there, it is the most central location for those on the system to come in to. Obviously "anonymous" has no idea what it is like for those on assistance to have to give up their right to be human in order to beg for money they'd rather not have to beg for. I know lots of people on assistance and they'd much rather have a job TYVM. But London is lacking for jobs these days unless you go back into the school and graduate in what? business.....medicine.....law......computer tech. Not everyone would enjoy these types of jobs. I mean as far as I'm concerned while we're at it we should take every person who thinks that welfare people are bums, and drug addicts and put THEM out of the core. They should have a place where they can go that won't "offend" their delicate sensibilities.

Maybe uniformed police should get a special per diem if the lunch at that McDonald's.

If it is or isn't because of OW that people loiter there the fact is that... people loiter there...

How can we effectively stop this from happening? It really is scary walking down the street listening to people screaming random profanities at anyone. There isn't a doubt in my mind that if the McDonalds was taken out of there (which I'm sure is out of Mr. Fontana's hands) it would make a huge impact on the situation. Just walk in there and take a look around, most people are sketchy. Sketchy to me doesn't mean that they have tattoos, that doesn't matter. It's just people who are loud, rude and ignorant. I find it hard to describe without grouping a certain stereotype into one category, but I'm sure most people see what I'm talking about.

Another thought:

No businesses "need to be moved". As the atmosphere of downtown changes so does the clientele. Businesses will come and go accordingly.

And I am not convinced moving OW will change anything.

B-Rocker: Good point about the 50,000 (I winder what the actual number is) and good points all round. I think "the cure" is to give street people more options as where to go. If this article is correct though, that isn't going to happen.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/05/06/18115121.html?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4dc59f8474264a95,0

i am female and go downtown regularly so i am not afraid of it but i also am old enough to remember well the simpsons christmas display windows so ya im old too...if you stop and look around at the people at d&r then you will see 2 groups 1 is the bus riders and 2 are the people who hang out there..i will not say that ow people are bad if that were so then there would be somewhere around 50,000 people there at that corner...we need to have a big year round venue in the core area that would employ many and bring in visitors to our beautiful city..if you blame the malls entirely for the downtown fall then look around at the mall you frequent and see the youth at work--they are tattooed and pierced--that is the way many many have chose to do but they are not all drug dealers there are many many straight laced dealers too--i say do not judge just accept and dont have any preconceived ideas

I'm not sure what services and shops specifically need to move, but something has to be done about the people along Dundas, particularly near Richmond but also near Clarence and Wellington. I used to work in the downtown and hated going in that area. All the screaming, swearing, fighting, and begging really turns me off, and I'm sure others.

I have been to the central district of Mexico City, a city that has its fair share of poverty, and it's not even as bad as Dundas Street in London.

Thanks for the lesson, Anonymous. I was trying to recall Welfare being at 217 York. I know Mother's Allowance was there pre-Harris and Disability is there now. I have to agree we, as a people, have to get over the NIMBY attitude if we are ever going to get along.

a couple of corrections - the welfare office was never at 217 York St. It used to be in the basement of city hall - city hall ran out of room and welfare became more about helping people get employment than giving out welfare cheques which meant that it needed more space. Why vacate a large downtown building to move an office - other than a NIMBY mentality, where would it go and to what benefit?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't downtown start to lose public interest when the malls were built. The big malls have "it all" under one roof making them viable options for winter and rainy days. The Galleria tried to challenge that, but apparently that didn't work out so well, since it seems to be more business than retail these days.

Robby: There you go again making like there is work for all. If there was work for all there wouldn't be 25,000 applicants showing up for 1000 positions at McDonald's.

MissM: I agree with you in part, there is no set stereotype anymore for people who get inked. What I disagree with is your post sounded more like an attack on commenters than an expression of a concept.

Btw: Yes I am old. No I am not in a seniors home (yet) but if I were, so what?

LOL you guys act like only sketchy scary bikers have tattoos, are you on the computers at your old age home?

instead of trying to push people out of the downtown, why not focus on bringing more people in. Are you trying to build a donut? Downtown will be stronger with more diversity. Eaton's, Simpson's, the Bay and many others failed long before OW and other offices moved in. Let's build a vision that draws people in - arts, unique stores, interesting venues....ever count the tattoo parlours, et al in downtown Toronto - there are lots - it's just that there's lots more of everything and that's what's interesting!

The welfare office is there to serve the needs of the poor. McDonald's is everywhere. Keep the municipal street cleaners to better use. Have uniformed police foot/bike patrol the river and parks and enforce the laws we have in place.

Ontario Works is a complete misnomer. George Orwell would have been proud to see his predictions from his classic book "1984" come true only one generation after his death. OW should be called (ODW) Ontario Doesn't Work and it's the working taxpayers who are picking up the tab for all those stricken with the terrible disease of Excuse-itis.

Sorry, I didn't get the last of your post. Huh?

I am old enough to remember going to Simpson's at Christmas to see the window displays. I remember the Wellington Square Mall. I also remember later in life hippies galore hanging out downtown with "straights" cruising the drag. I wonder if people were afraid of us all over downtown?

To the person call thatguyinlondon. How old are you ? If you are of any age to remember London core past. When "The Bay " store was at richmond and dundas or the store before that if you are old enough to remember "simpson" there was no problem with loitering at Dundas and Richmond. It was a safe environment to shop, but now it is unsafe and not Londoners avoid it please of that.End of story.

I still cannot see why some think the OW is a cause of the loitering at Dundas and Richmond. I do not think they are OW people, at least that is not the purpose for them being there aside from using the washroom. It's not like they run up stairs and get $5 every hour or something. I contend that most OW recipients would rather not go there. For one because of the loiterers and also because they do not want to be seen there. The loiterers are there mostly because they can.

On April 20, 2011, maybe 200 people gathered in Victoria Park (Last year it was more like 2000) to bring awareness to the anti-prohibition cause. 25 London Police were sent to quell any potential uprisings. (This got virtually zero press and literally zero follow-up) 25 police for 200 pot smokers and they cannot spare a uniform or two to stand at Dundas and Richmond. The presence alone will have a positive effect on both pedestrian and vehicle traffic. Even bikes! These officers could smile and greet the citizens and do some much needed police PR as well as keep and eye out for loiterers, drug deals and what have you. I know to some this does not conform to their view of "Serve and Protect" as demonstrated in the 4/20 video, but it sounds feasible in my fantasy society.

I too have a bad feel towards cheque cashing places, but do not see how the tattoo parlours or tattoo places play into the loitering. Then again I have never really noticed them downtown. I know there is a Pawnshop on Dundas near Talbot and I can almost picture a tattoo place on Dundas upstairs somewhere. Then again, I do not go downtown very often.

There is currently a report in development regarding cash chequing agencies. Hopefully we will find a way to drive these predatory businesses out of our communities.